Influence and promotion updates

Harad: I think this list introduces controlled diversity and acceptable promotions. Feedback?
-Influence Table-
1-Nothing
2-Haradrim w/warspear
3-Haradrim w/bow
4-Abrakhan Guard
5-Choose from above list
6-Roll on table below

1-2-Watcher of Karna
3-4- Serpent Guardw/warspear
5-6- Raider w/bow OR warspear

1ID-Warspear
1ID-Bow
2ID-Horse (Heroes and Serpent Guard only)

-Promotion Table-
Haradrim w/warspear- Serpent Guard w/warspear
Haradrim w/bow- Haradrim Raider w/Bow
Serpent Guard w/warspear- Serpent Rider w/warspear

Note that the Watchers of Karna and Abrakhan Guard may not be promoted except to heroes. Also the Haradrim Spearmen no longer instantly upgrade to Mounted troops further balancing beginning game sequences. The introduction of Mahud Warriors seems difficult to justify as they are truly a separate kingdom. A mahud addition would also make it more difficult for the average player to use. I think this list should be optional for anyone wishing to play Harad and not a replacement because the old list does rely on models more readily available to the average Joe and in test play does seem balanced. The Problem I see with giving Harad instant cavalry in this list is because of the other troop types that will overbalance Haradrim in early missions.

Possible Mahud ideas
-Influence Table-
1-Nothing
2-Mahud w/hand weapon
3-Mahud w/Blowpipe
4-Mahud w/warspear
5-Choose from Table above
6-Roll on Table Below

1-2- Camel Rider w/Blowpipe or 1-3- Camel Rider w/Blowpipe
3-4- Camel Rider w/Warspear 4-6- Camel Rider w/Warspear
5-6- Half Troll w/Hand-Weapon
I think the danger with the Mahud is overbalanced gameplay in general. They all have two attacks and the half trolls are perhaps simply too powerful for the game in general. In contrast I would say that they could be run but with certain special provisions to balance them to other gamers. 4ID to roll on chart, half trolls cannot upgrade to heroes, and maybe only 4-5 units to start.

TTFN
Nate

Fiefdom
-Influence Table-
1-No Effect
2-Axeman of Lossarnach
3-Clansman of Lamedon
4-Man at Arms of Dol Amroth
5-Ranger of Gondor
6-Roll Again on the table below

1-3- Knight of Dol Amroth
4-6- Knight of Dol Amroth with Mount

-Equipment-
1ID-Spear
1ID-Lance (Hero and Knights only)
2ID-Horse (Hero and Knights only)
1ID-Elven Blade (Hero only)

-Promotions-
Men-at-Arms - Knight of Dol Amroth w/shield
Knight of Dol Amroth on foot- Knight of Dol Amroth on Armored Horse

-Starting Forces-
1x Knight of Dol Amroth (Cpt.)
4x Men at Arms of Dol Amroth
2x Blackroot Vale Bowmen (Rangers of Gondor)

I think this list is balanced and has enough troop diversity within EXISTING models to satisfy Dol Amroth's competitiveness at any juncture and the lack of archery is made up for with the sever armored and mounted capabilities. The other troop types also pull in unique aspects to the small force coupling fighting ability of knights, rangers, and men-at-arms with killing power of clansmen and axemen. The limited promotion table does make this list more centered around the path of the knight but I believe with the potential to create these amazing warriors at the end that balances out that particular limitation.

FEEDBACK?

TTFN
Nate

sweet, very sweet my precious. GOLLUM, GOLLUM! Tell us precious has your accent gone foul?

Moria:
-Influence-
1- Nothing
2- Goblin w/Spear
3- Goblin w/Orc Bow
4- Goblin w/Shield
5- Choose from Table above
6- Roll on Table Below

1-2- Prowler w/Orc bow
3-4- Prowler w/shield
5-6- Prowler w/Two-handed axe

-Equipment-
1ID Shield
1ID Spear
1ID Orc Bow
1ID Two-handed Axe (Prowler and Hero only)

-Promotions-
Goblin w/shield-Prowler w/shield
Goblin w/Orc bow-Prowler w/Orc Bow
Goblin w/Spear-Prowler w/Two-handed axe

I think with the model limit set as it is the requirement of rolling a nine should still be necessary and that said it would be unfair to allow so many of the goblins to become elites without a score of eight either. Originally I located this list with a model cap of 20 rather than 25 but I do not think that is necessary as the goblins have a lower chance of gaining elites and also gaining less captains. It is possible for a goblin army, less likely in other factions, to decide to continue without a captain relying on numbers and the faint hope of rolling a nine on the promotion table. The Goblin Player, I believe, should be allowed to choose this or the old list for the simple fact that every model promotes to an expensive metal figure and therefore is costly to someone who perchance may not have the resources to field that many pricey models.

Feedback?

TTFN
Nate

Bro who did you offend to get the strawberry shortcake girl as your image?

TTFN
Nate

Isengard:
-Influence-
1-No Effect
2-Orc with choice of weapon
3-Uruk-hai Scout
4-Uruk-hai Scout with Shield
5-Uruk-hai Scout with Orc Bow
6-Roll again on the table below

1-2- Uruk-hai Warrior with Shield or Pike
3-4- Uruk-hai Warrior with Crossbow
5-6- Uruk-hai Berserker

-Promotions-
Uruk-hai Scout w/sword only- Uruk-hai Warrior w/sword
Scout with Orc Bow- Uruk-hai Warrior with Crossbow
Scout with Shield- Uruk-hai Warrior with Shield
Uruk-hai Warrior- Uruk-hai Berserker

-Equipment-
1ID Shield
1ID Orc Bow
1ID Spear (Orcs Only)
1ID Two-Handed Weapon (Orcs Only)
1ID Crossbow (Uruk-hai Hero Only)
1ID Heavy Armor (Uruk-hai Hero Only)
2ID Warg (Orc Hero Only)

-Starting Forces-
2x Uruk-hai Scouts
2x Uruk-hai Scouts with Shields
2x Uruk-hai Scouts with Orc Bows

I think this balances the early game Isengard player to everyone else's level and also allows room to upgrade without trying to touch every corner of the kingdom of Isengard. I do like some of what Jimbo did on his list. In the one I have edited here I believe there is room to substitute Wildmen of Dunland for the orcs thus allowing them to upgrade to the warriors of Dunland respectively. That provides a further separation from the Mordor player while focusing on giving Isengard progressively stronger infantry.

Feedback?

TTFN
Nate

I've stated my opinion plenty of times. The idea of Battle Company isn't to have a lot of different troop types in one army its to build up a small band of warriors. Think about it. A military regiment doesn't have 2 Army soldiers, a Marine, 2 Air Reserve, and a National Guard member in one company. No it's all the same guys with different training. I just don't see why it's make or break with you all not to have 1 or 2 types of models. But what ever Jim will respond that I'm a broken record and a complainer and Nate will just repeat Why Not over and over and over again so you all do what you want. I'm starting to lose interest in BC now.

I think that the old lists work well I just find that there could be room for updates or modifications. The underlying temptation that Battle Companies invokes is customization, whether random or deliberate. Harad is extremely simple and could use the diversity but We are not trying to supplant the old lists simply post alternatives and get feedback regarding fairness. I get the whole analogy but do feel compelled to have fun with this line of updates. As far as Dol Amroth goes, they honestly needed the work. Isengard started a little strong but other than that I have no problems with them. I just like the idea of fleshing out the game a little and giving some variety. Dwarves are another example of an army that absolutely needed an update. I think we need to bring the three elf factions into the game because there is no reason they shouldn't be in, even if it has to be some kind of combo force. Khand and Easterlings also have a list out there but I haven't posted yet and need to edit it anyway. We can call these lists by different names to provide the bookkeeping semblance of different factions. Call new Harad "Serpent Horde" and new Dol Amroth "Fiefdoms" and new Isengard "Orthanc" if you need to. I respect your opinion and could use feedback on whether or not you think the lists are balanced. If you don't want to talk about the tables and collaborate why are you posting? This particular string of posts, while tangents are a given, should have an ultimate goal of constructing "Comix Zone" accepted battle company lists.

TTFN
Nate

well nick you are a complainer and i would not insult broken records by comparing you to them. that being said. i didn't read all of the lists yet but what i did read my critique with the harad list is having abrakhan guard in the low table is too much. i would say yes have them in the roll a 6 then roll on the chart below. the way you have it i get an abrakhan guard on a 4 or a 5 and if i have 1 influence dice now i get him on a 3-6, too overpowered for a model that has a 2X handed weopon but no penalty.

nick these companis already come with diferent types of warriors, fiefdom has axemen, clansmen, knights and minas tirith, isengard has orcs uruk-hai and wild men so once again your point makes no sense.

Keebler wrote:A military regiment doesn't have 2 Army soldiers, a Marine, 2 Air Reserve, and a National Guard member in one company. No it's all the same guys with different training.

I could be mistaken but I believe many military forces have the odd habit of throwing specialists in a particular field into a company who may have varying equipment and skills from his comrades. Its not like we are outfitting orcs with elven bows because we think it looks cool. The idea is to provide an unit with the soldiers it may need in a given situation. The companies don't have to resemble redcoats lined up cookie cutter style. Instead they can be a collection of warriors with varying rank and ability that operate like a team. I'm not trying to argue although in a way I guess my line of reasoning is a bit of an argument. I really just want to have you on board Keebler because we have a chance to pull this game out of the "Return of the King" stage as if that was the last book to come out. You have been playing these games so long you have got to have some kind of advice toward making the game work with new models. (ie Ghaladrim list that you constructed) So many new and interesting models have been released and its a waste not to at least think about incorporating them into the game. The game stands only to gain by throwing these models into our own sort of expansion.

TTFN
Nate

Jimbo, I agree with disjointing Abrakhan Guard to upper list. The only reason he was there was for continuity of the format but now that I think of it in game terms that makes more sense.

TTFN
Nate

yeah and i dont think prowlers get shields (could be wrong) and for the uruk-hai i like the starting with scouts but think pikes in battle companies would be a little pointless ( a small roving band of warriors probably would not use them)

Harad Correction:
-Influence-
1-Nothing
2-3-Haradrim w/Warspear
4-5-Haradrim w/Bow
6-Roll Below

1-Raider w/Bow
2-Raider w/Warspear
3-Serpent Guard
4-Serpent Rider
5-Abrakhan Guard
6-Watcher of Karna
Essentially the Raiders are just modification of equipment, Serpent Riders are mounted Serpent Guard, and the other two are elites. I think 5+6 have the potential of being sort of extraneous in the list only because the Haradrim are generally considered a cavalry based army. Perhaps this, as stated in a previous post, can be called by a different name thereby separating them from one another. The sheer fact that Harad starts with ten models prevents them from loading up on a lot of the elite models but I do like that they are there just for the added variety.

TTFN
Nate

Lord Jimbo wrote:yeah and i dont think prowlers get shields (could be wrong) and for the uruk-hai i like the starting with scouts but think pikes in battle companies would be a little pointless ( a small roving band of warriors probably would not use them)

Agreed, Swordsmen without shields will upgrade to Uruk Hai warriors with shields (using engineer model) and can still upgrade to the bezerker. at any point the player can use an influence die to give them shields. this makes sense to me.

Do you agree that any player may still use the original list if they wish?

TTFN
Nate

This is Keebler's original List:

ok, assuming that you have read the rules I've compiled an army list for Galadhrim:

Galadhrim Starting Force:

2 Galadhrim Elves with Elf Bows
2 Galadhrim Elves with Spear and Shield
2 Galadhrim Elves with Elven Blades

Special Rule:

Any mounted hero or warrior is considered to have the Expert Rider special ability

Promotions:

A Wood elf is not promoted like the Galadhrim. a 1-5 is no result. On a 6 they become a Hero

Galadhrim Elves with Elf Blades - Galadhrim Knight

Galadhrim Elves with Elf Bows - Galadhrim Knight with Elf blade and Bow

Galadhrim with Spear and Shield - Galadhrim Guard.

Galadhrim Influence Table:

1-nothing
2-Wood Elf with either Elf Blade, Elf bow, or Wood Elf Spear
3-Galadhrim Warrior with Elf Blade
4-Galadhrim Warrior with Elf Bow
5-Galadhrim Warrior with Spear and Shield
6-Roll on Table Below

1-2-Galadhrim Guard
3-4 Galadhrim Knight (no bow)
5-6 Galadhrim Knight (bow)

Galadhrim Equipment options:

Weapon Cost
Elf Bow 2
Elf Blade 1
Spear 1
Shield 1
Elven Steed (Hero only) 2
Throwing Daggers (wood elf only) 2

Galadhrim Advance Table:

N/A

The Advance Table was included for a sense of completion. Please note that this section is eliminated and replaced by the charts in the updated rules provided by Jimbo. This is by no means a definitive elf Battle Company list but merely a starting point using the other army lists as a template. Note that with the exception of Isengard elves will be outnumbered every game. This will lead them to taking more casualties early and causing fewer in return making upgrading harder to do. Thats why when they do upgrade it seems big.

Let's test out his list and see if it is balanced. I am thinking the throwing weapons should almost belong solely to Mirkwood because it was in their list solely originally. I think it gives Mirkwood a little uniqueness if we decide to construct a list for them. Sentinels are definitely a ridiculously powerful unit to put into this game (same problem with half trolls) but perhaps a unit limit of 1 or maybe 2 per company would still allow them without making it ridiculous. Of course players will have charts stating all of this so a detailed memorization and dissertation of exceptions now is pointless
TTFN
Nate