My official resignation and goodbye

Greetings,


I was at the tournament last night (even though I really wish I never came). It was really, really lousy just like all the 40K tournaments have been. Why would that be, here I will say. At the time and before hand, I guess I never really realized how bad things were. People from the store told me that they refused to play in the tournaments and why, people have told me that they hate the tournaments and why. I realize now that deep down, I hate them too. Why? Because of the tournament spirit. I have caught so many people doing the following things (the 40K crowd): cheating (of many sorts!), stalling, extreme rushing (with the purpose of making someone mess up something big and then telling then "haha"), nasty and mean behavior, abrutly walking away from someone who is having a conversation with you and then talking to someone else, death by rules committee when you are not even in the game, playing someones game for them and so on and so on.

I am sick and tired of the 40K that is played. Not real 40K, it is stab in the back, kick dirt in the face, dirty handed win at all costs 40K. I have dishonoured myself by being involved in these games. I now am announcing that I will not be coming to any more 40K tournaments for this group (unless you guys learn how to play the real version of 40K and stop doing all of the above stuff). Have no fear, no one has to worry about me continuosly beating them anymore. Like I said, I have heard quite a few times from people in the group about how rotten the 40K gaming spirit has become and now I am bringing it out into the open.


One more thing. My car died about five miles from the store and I spent almost three hours sitting out in front of a gas station. I have taken that as a divine sign from the heavens (a pretty blunt one) that 40K in this group is not for me. Because I just had to go to this lousy tournament, now I have lost my beloved car. I loved that car so much.

You do realize that what you are saying happen is what you have done right. I mean you took a two hour turn vs Chuck and then I stood next to you as you accused him of being slow. I can say that I like you personally, but in game you are the worst offender of what you are saying people do. That is the worst kind of bitching there is. I am not perfect and far, far from it. You need to take a look at yourself before going of on a group.

Brian_Horton wrote:You do realize that what you are saying happen is what you have done right. I mean you took a two hour turn vs Chuck and then I stood next to you as you accused him of being slow. I can say that I like you personally, but in game you are the worst offender of what you are saying people do. That is the worst kind of bitching there is. I am not perfect and far, far from it. You need to take a look at yourself before going of on a group.

Greetings,

Horton, you know nothing of me as a person besides what you see at the tournament. Just ask Mike or Chuck and then you will regret saying that to me and you will know why. I have never stalled, I am not a cheater like so many people are. I dishonoured myself by playing horrible armies and by not always being nice and polite (regardless of my opponents behavior). In fact, if you want to know about me regarding my supposed stalling, you can message me privately and I can tell you, it is personal and not for the whole world to get to talk about. I did not stall though. 1) Me and Chuck are both very slow players, 2) we were both talking to other people during the game slowing it down a lot (not that that is a bad thing normally), 3) I played one turn and took maybe 45 minutes. Chuck had two turns and took about that long, and then the deployment he did took a while. That is not bad! Being slow is not a crime. These 3000pt games have to be played in 4 hours, not 2 and a half and anyone who thinks they can be done that fast has not realized that some people are slow. I was just talking to Chuck about this. 4 hours would give enough time for all six turns, probably. 2.5 is nowhere near enough, it obviously favours shooty armies. Big surprise, guess who wins the tournaments?


Me and Chuck just had a great conversation and I did apologize to him for being slow. What is more, I now formally announce that the only reason I had a "victory" was because of not having enough time. Chuck actually outsmarted me and did a great job doing so, he deserves his credit. I think that people in general need to realize that not everyone is born lucky with no problems. Some people have problems that make things in their life harder, like processing thought. I am no disgusting cheater and you are so incredibly mistaken. You should apologize to me for that. Once you know me and my things, then you will understand.


The things that I have said, quite a few others including yourself have said. I just decided to put it out in the open for everyone to see.


Courage and Honour,
Ave Imperator

Wow. As for why I do not take part in these events, just read above.

I know I was not at this event and should probably not say anything,but, I just can't understand how an event that is meant to be for fun and relaxation turns out to become such an unenjoyable thing. These games that we play are made to be an escape from everyday life. Meant to take your mind off of your problems not create new ones. We all try to play our games to win, but it is not the end of the world if you don't. Sorry if this angers some as it is not meant to do that. Just tired of hearing and seeing things like this after almost every tournament.

I did not call you a cheater. You do have a point there and if you thought I called you a cheater than I do apologize. You do play remarkably slow to the point where there is the perception that you stall. I understand taking time to think but at points, it take you a absurd amount of time to do so even for what I know of the way you are with what you have. Again I like you personally and you are a nice guy but playing in tournaments with you is a difficult process. I played 3 games yesterday and got 5 + turns in all games. Your argument that it is not enough time is to me not justified. If you know your rules, army and don't argue every little thing there is more than enough time. Tournaments by nature are competitive. Cheese is what tournaments are that are not Rouge Trader. I think rouge Trader tournaments are more fun overall because it take all of the aspects of the HOBBY into account from painting, sportsmanship and gameplay.
I personally play the game to have fun. I know some people don't like playing against me because I play strong lists the majority of the time. Hell I lose often when I am trying to learn an army. I was so mad at the new Tyranid book at first I thought it sucked. After playing lots of games and loosing several; I found the way that I liked playing them and it was competitive. I had to change my whole approach that had previously brought me success.
Look in no way am I trying to attack you or single you out, I was a bit of a prick to Bailey yesterday without realizing it until later when I thought about it. He had combi flames on a group of termies and he said they were melta after the game had started. I asked for his list instead of trusting my friend. When he could not find his list I almost said well they are flamers. Thank god I did not do that cause I would feel like a bigger Be-donk-a-donk than I already do about it. We all make lapses in judgement in tournaments based on the competitive nature that tournaments are.

The Man with No Name wrote:I know I was not at this event and should probably not say anything,but, I just can't understand how an event that is meant to be for fun and relaxation turns out to become such an unenjoyable thing. These games that we play are made to be an escape from everyday life. Meant to take your mind off of your problems not create new ones. We all try to play our games to win, but it is not the end of the world if you don't. Sorry if this angers some as it is not meant to do that. Just tired of hearing and seeing things like this after almost every tournament.

I agree with what you say about at the end of the day it is just for fun and escape from the real world.

Greetings,

Thank you for that then. I do severely hate being called a cheater. I could cheat if I wanted to, but I do not as I feel that is wrong. The thing here is that you do not know about certain factors in this solution and by not knowing them you cannot in any way accurately judge my command ability. You think I play way too slow but if you knew the whole picture, then it would make sense. Besides, there are two other people (at least) in the 40K group alone (not even the Fantasy group) that are as slow as me. Being slow is just part of it, not everyone can think very fast. I have fought the slow people and I really try hard not to rush them. At one point we had 17 minutes until the game ended and my opponent really wanted to do another turn. I thought we could finish it in about 22 minutes. We did: almost exactly. I think it aggravated Mike, but I was trying hard to make sure my opponent had a good game so I went forwards with that decision anyway. Being slow is something you have to either accept, or you can try to go on a witch hunt about it. No one, including Mike, is going to tell me that I am stalling. I have told the two people that matter the most a little bit (enough) about why I may seem to go incredibly slow. Horton, you have trouble moving it seems (to be blunt). You are partly disabled. Guess what? That word could be applied to me too, except not on the outside (well, sort of), but on the inside. Everyone at this store can just deal with it: I will not apologize to anyone for it and I will personally stand my ground against anyone who accuses me of doing it to cheat. I try hard to go fast but sometimes I fail. That is part of the game, sometimes you just cannot do everything right. That is not great, but is part of it all. Besides, I will not be at the 40K tourneys anymore so none of you have to worry about losing to me anymore


I was talking to Miller about this a little bit too and I will not apologize to people that either cannot stand me as a general or a person. I will try hard to be nice and friendly but if someone cannot handle one of the above two things, then they will have to tough it out like a man.


Lastly, I do mean to precisely call out this 40K group as a group (not everyone as an individual of course) because it has become rotten to the core. There are so many things wrong with it. If I had the chance to battle against half or more of the people in the group for fun, I would not because they are lousy to play (even in "fun" games). This group needs a severe religious experience. It needs to be reborn with strong leadership and re-taught just about everything about the culture. These people do not know what they are talking about in general. Many others, including you Horton, have said similar things to me too.



To clarify: this 40K group needs to drop the stabbing in the back, the ten on one rules committee garbage, the sneaky underhanded dirty gaming. Others have been saying this besides me. I have even had people at the group tell me they do not go to tournaments for these reasons! What a horrible statement! Tournaments are for meeting new people, having fun, chatting about the culture, getting a few pints of Bugman's and of course getting in some fun, relaxed games. That is almost an exact quote from the our spiritual leaders at white dwarf. In other words, the opposite of what the 40K tourneys have become here.


Courage and Honour,
Ave Imperator

shilek jalan wrote:
Lastly, I do mean to precisely call out this 40K group as a group (not everyone as an individual of course) because it has become rotten to the core. There are so many things wrong with it. If I had the chance to battle against half or more of the people in the group for fun, I would not because they are lousy to play (even in "fun" games). This group needs a severe religious experience. It needs to be reborn with strong leadership and re-taught just about everything about the culture. These people do not know what they are talking about in general. Many others, including you Horton, have said similar things to me too.

To clarify: this 40K group needs to drop the stabbing in the back, the ten on one rules committee garbage, the sneaky underhanded dirty gaming. Others have been saying this besides me. I have even had people at the group tell me they do not go to tournaments for these reasons! What a horrible statement! Tournaments are for meeting new people, having fun, chatting about the culture, getting a few pints of Bugman's and of course getting in some fun, relaxed games. That is almost an exact quote from the our spiritual leaders at white dwarf. In other words, the opposite of what the 40K tourneys have become here.

First and foremost, you did call the club out, and you've been insulting about it. You talk about how the club has become "rotten" yet you are never at the club, so how would you know. And if your wondering I'm at the club almost every Tuesday and Thursday and have never seen you there. Therefore, you can not make those accusations as you don't really know this club. Your basing your assumptions on a bad tournament experience where people play timed matches to win. Allow me to repeat that, a TIMED match to WIN.

Tournaments are competitive by nature. While I agree that you can play in a relaxed environment for a friendly game, you'll find most tournaments are competitive and that people are playing to win. That being said, it does not mean they are trying to cheat. What you may perceive as cheating may be a result of you not know all the rules for a particular army.

I feel this is nothing further that could be positively added to this, therefore the Thread is locked

I feel that this is a discussion that needs to be had, so I am UNLOCKING this thread. I was there. I know what happened. Before things get overblown, remember. THIS IS A GAME! Anyone that thinks beyond that, please seek professional help. Do we all get along? NO. Do I always see eye to eye with even my best friends? NO. That is the nature of man. Games are meant to be fun. There is a lot that we can do with this club. There is a lot we can do without personally attacking people. Personally, I am interested in hearing what other people have to say about this. Freedom of speech and whatnot.

Thank you.

My main thoughts

1. I just think that tournaments are competitive by nature.
2. Soft score tournaments are fun and competitive at the same time.
3. People who ruin the entire gaming day as a whole should just be told so directly. Hopefully that way they know and can try to fix the problem.
4. If your a heal just admit you are and move on. (I know I can be.)
5. No one person is perfect.
6. No game is perfect.
7. You can't please all of the people all of the time.
8. You can never always agree with someone.
9. Admit when you are wrong.
10. It is just a game and sometimes it is taken too seriously. (hell I know I have made this mistake.)

Greetings,


First, this is the internet. What that means in English is that someone can feel like they are being rabidly attacked when actually the person doing so had a smile on their face when they wrote what they wrote and they were really trying hard to politefully give advice. I personally hate the extreme vague-ness of the internet. It will cause trouble. There, done with that.



Second, by all of the Emperor's Benevolent Saints.....I have never, ever heard of a thread being unlocked. No disrespect intended and I do appreciate it.


Courage and Honour,
Ave Imperator

shilek jalan wrote:First, this is the internet. What that means in English is that someone can feel like they are being rabidly attacked when actually the person doing so had a smile on their face when they wrote what they wrote and they were really trying hard to politefully give advice. I personally hate the extreme vague-ness of the internet. It will cause trouble. There, done with that.

It is, indeed, very difficult to convey sarcasm or any other emotion over the internet.

Second, by all of the Emperor's Benevolent Saints.....I have never, ever heard of a thread being unlocked. No disrespect intended and I do appreciate it.

I believe others might have things to say in regards to this matter. When only two or three members are chiming in, I cannot, in good faith, close a thread. Secondly, gaming aside, I am a constitutionalist. That means, among all else, I believe in free speech. Good or bad.

As you were.

If it is allowed I would like to add my opinion on this situation although I did not attend (turns out I had to work that day anyway and forgot so I wasn't coming anyway Miller, my bad lol).

The first thing I would like to address is the club being attacked. I have been a member of this club since before it was officially a club (although it was as a Lord of the Rings player) and take direct offense to what was said. Now I have never met Shilek so have no first hand experience with the situations he describes outside of hearsay but in my 4+ years of gaming at the store I have never once seen anything that would deem anyone or anything being labeled rotten to the core. Now not everyone gets along with everyone, personally there have been times when I wanted to take a brick to Christians head, but that is the nature of having a club of this size and to let it get out of hand is ridiculous and futile. You cannot target the club and not individuals. The club is intangible and is nothing more than a label, it cannot be right nor wrong. It sounds exactly like Shilek has taken offense with certain individuals but does not wish to specifically point them out. The leadership of the club is not wrong because it's not just one guy. It's a collective as a whole that steers the club and one person cannot stand before a group and call them wrong.

The second thing I would like to address is when Shilek said if he had to play half the group for fun he would not because they are lousy. How dare you sir. Have you actually MET everyone? And I'm not talking just about the 40k or Fantasy oh no, I mean the War Machine, the Lord of the Rings, The HeroClix, The Blood Bowl, the Board Gamers, the Card Players. These are all members of the club whether or not they are active on these boards and you have the nerve to sit there and say they are not worth your time? Who are you to be the judge of all? I think you got called out and do not know how to react in a mature manner. You can disagree with the individual but I shall not stand idly by and watch you disrespect an organization I take seriously. To some this club is just another thing to do but to me this club is like a second family (closer in some respects) and if you find something wrong with it than that is your right but an unfortunate one and one I feel has been determined rashly.

If you leave Shilek then don't look down on us from your high horse for too long or you may fall off and be crash down to our level. It's just a shame you think that level is unworthy of you. Maybe I made a point maybe not but that's my opinion.

(and as several posts were written as I wrote this I sincerely hope Shilek that that was what was intended. If so then that is well but I shall keep my post unmodified as a reminder to all new members of the club that they do not have to be here if they do not want to, but shall be welcomed and befriended if they do. Wow, I should have been wearing a jump suit and handing Kool-Aid when I wrote that lol).

Greetings,


Just so everyone knows.....I fully apologized to Chuck (I think at least three times now) for my part to play in our game being retarded. However, Chuck has prized information about me that most of you all do not and so can understand certain things that you all have no ability to (due to lack of information). I also apologized for being a big jerk by playing a big jerk army. I have not really heard anyone else (as far as I remember) other then Chuck and me do that.



As for Calgar, I already dealt with you. You have received harsh words which you have fully deserved. I will not waste any further time on your previous comments, since displaying them publicly would not do much since you have already seen them.

By the way, I called out this group as a group and not as individual people. Just to say yet again, more people then me have said the same things "cesspool of a group", "jerks who just want to win" and so on. I am tired of the lousy treatment people have been giving me now for way too long.


I now am specifically calling out four people and four people only out of the entire 40K group! Carlos and Christian Devilla! You two have shown me respect and are nice, polite and respectful. Thank you. The real big guy (not Miller) who plays Iron Warriors: you actually seem like a great opponent, I would play you for fun (along with the previous two). Lastly, Chuck....well me and Chuck have already privately talked (multiple times) and we are both cool with each other.